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Old 02-04-2005, 06:20 PM
nycpipewelder nycpipewelder is offline
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Cool uphand or downhand ?

the pipefitters union in nyc has a law that states downhand welding is not allowed, but in my experience and talking to pipeliners across the nation downhand welding gives better penetration and can be just as strong and more efficient than uphand. seems to me the union just wants to slow down production so they canboost their members hours and profits.,

is downhand just as good as uphand?
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Old 02-04-2005, 06:26 PM
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Tom Zachman Tom Zachman is offline
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When I was much younger I pondered that question and never thought to check with the New Yanker Union Boyz for my answer to prolonging the "work"... Chicago was as far as I got when searching for the answer; but then Hef moved the whole she-bang to Kalifooey... and I gained experience through partnerships....
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Old 02-04-2005, 07:12 PM
originalsix originalsix is offline
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Default Pipeliners vs Pipefitters

Pipeliners on large bore pipe do run downhill but pressure piping in an industrial setting is almost always done uphand with a 6010 root then a 7018 hot, cushion, and cap. Sometimes the root is heli-arc. 7018(lo-hydrogen) is, in this and most other applications, pulled up-hand. Hope this helps.
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Old 02-05-2005, 10:20 AM
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It is always interesting to read the different opinions on term logy. On the most part I heard the term “down hand” referred to welding in the flat position. The term “down hill” referred to welding vertically from top to bottom. Then that would leave the term “up hill” for welding vertically from the bottom to the top! I guess it depends on what side of the mountain you are on, LOL!
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Old 02-05-2005, 11:06 AM
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Pile Buck was good to see you posting on here. Its a good place to hang out and a lot of great information can be found here.

gnewby
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Old 02-05-2005, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnewby
Pile Buck was good to see you posting on here. Its a good place to hang out and a lot of great information can be found here.

gnewby
Hi gnewby. Thank you! Hope I can make some new friends here as well!
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Old 07-17-2005, 04:47 PM
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Diverbill45 Diverbill45 is offline
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As a member of the pipefitters union and a welder, I have worked both industrial piping and X-country pipelines. On the x-country pipeline work it has always been done downhill because of the time factor. A downhill weld can be made lots faster than uphill and the results are pretty much the same. A perfect example is the 42" pipeline that runs from Canada to Concord, California in 1992-1993. I worked on this line when it came through Oregon. It came through in centeral Oregon, which is considered being in the high desert, and followed hwy. 97 down to California. This area of the state has a lot of flat areas but also has canyons and river crossings. On a good day where it was rather flat, I have seen as much as 1-1/4 miles of pipe welded in a 10 hour shift. There were quite a few people doing the welding but still in order to get that much pipe done the welds had to be put in fast. I dought that this amount of pipe can possibly be done using the uphill method. Oh, the pressure on this line when in operation was going to be 600-900 psi.. Every pipeline I have worked on each weld was x-rayed and any repairs were done by the repair crews. If you had more than three repairs that had to be made on any of the welds that you did, in a certain time frame, which usually means the number of welds you made, you were fired. Not only that, but the welding boss was always coming by and looking at your welds and if he didn't like what he saw, you are gone. With the type of welding rods being used today (5P++++), compared to what was being used in the past (6010 then later the so called HPY or hippy rod) the welding has been much faster and better. After I learned some of the tricks of downhill welding and did it for awhile, it was hard to go back to the uphill welding because of how much more time is involved to make the same size weld.

Industrail piping has always been done in the uphill fashion, which I have done for most of the time I've spent welding pipe. Before I ever did any downhill welding I was always told, by many weldors and QC people, that it was not as strong as uphill, which I've found to be untrue. When we are pretesting for a pipeline, which we now have to do, in the area where I live, the test straps are put through the visual test, bend test and even some of the coupons are x-rayed. If the pretest is passed you can be dispatched out to the job so you can take the welding test, to get the job. At the present time in order to be dispatched to any job, as a welder, we have to have precertification tests on record which are only good for six months. This has come about due to the fact that there were people being dispatched, claiming to be weldors, that couldn't pass the welding test. I myself think this should have been done years ago because over the past 30 years of working in the piping industry and going in and doing repiping and remodels, I have run up on some very bad examples of welds put in by so-called weldors.

Welding is like anything else, if you want to be good at what you do, you just keep learning from others that are better than you. The best thing I ever did in order to learn is watch someone else who was better and asked them to show me how they did it.
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Old 07-17-2005, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diverbill45
Before I ever did any downhill welding I was always told, by many weldors and QC people, that it was not as strong as uphill, which I've found to be untrue. When we are pretesting for a pipeline, which we now have to do, in the area where I live, the test straps are put through the visual test, bend test and even some of the coupons are x-rayed.
Ummmmmmmmmm, I find this statement very interesting!
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Old 07-17-2005, 07:16 PM
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I remember Hippy rods, we don't use them any more. Uphill welding, from my comprehension, is a deeper penetrating weld, as opposed to downhill. A properly laid downhill weld, as opposed to a properly laid uphill rod, hard to criticize either as being stronger, other than the filler metal.
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Old 07-17-2005, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pile Buck
It is always interesting to read the different opinions on term logy. On the most part I heard the term “down hand” referred to welding in the flat position. The term “down hill” referred to welding vertically from top to bottom. Then that would leave the term “up hill” for welding vertically from the bottom to the top! I guess it depends on what side of the mountain you are on, LOL!
All the years Ive heard the same,,and remember i own the joint , so it non union,,unless every once in 5 years we would get union wages,,But ive done heli-arc,as a root, 6010-6011 up, down, ,7018- up,11018 up. got the pcs of paper,,I belive that smaller pipe is better tiged,,but after that, and seeing your pics, a 48 " dia pipe is almost flat.. then you have the guys that have the pipe rollers.??? Youve been around it your entire life,,,You tell us,,I just have a pc. of paper that says I can do that and Bridges,,Thanks,Jack
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