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  #21  
Old 06-18-2006, 06:42 AM
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I think that I may have partially solved my problem. I found that ¾” black iron pipe is almost exactly 1” OD (seems like most of the press brakes that are sold use 1” round stock for the die), and that ½” almost fits inside it (sch 40 for both), like this:

(notice that I cut a little slit in the ½” to fit over the seam/weld on the inside of the ¾)

This is actually what the thing looked like, I cut the ¾” the full length, 22”, and then cut pieces of the ½”, 12” long to reinforce the centers, then I cut a groove up the middle of the ½, freehand, first with a cutting wheel and then I widened it with the edge of a grinding wheel in my monster Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (If you’re used to most of the HF grinders or like the typical Makita or dewalt and you pick one of these up you’ll know what I mean. It’s got a reasonably sized housing but the thing is much more powerful, you can actually hear it spinning stuff up to a higher speed… the only one that I’ve used that was close was the 8.5A Milwakee which I actually returned because of awkward ergonomics):

Heh, not bad for freehand, I have a better picture of the groove, but this one shows the end better, you can almost make out that I put the groove right dead on the weld seam figuring the tube was a little thicker there and I could cut a much larger groove without cutting through (wouldn’t support the outer tube as well if it had a cut that could be squeezed) if I cut into the weld bead.
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Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
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  #22  
Old 06-18-2006, 06:43 AM
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Now since the OD of the ½” is just a little too tight a press fit for the ID of the ¾ (it would work if you only had a piece about ½” long, but there is no way that the press would press 12” of it through. I could only get about 3/8” in with a 3lb drilling hammer when I test fit it), I actually took and ground it to size on the belt sander. My anal retentiveness kicking in again I actually measured them in 4 places and made sure that they were dead on to the accuracy of the dial caliper, shooting for a .002” interference fit (If I can press it together I don’t have to make any plug welds ). This is what they looked like:

They pressed together perfectly, and even well lubed, after sitting 5 min they took a tight enough set that I couldn’t move them at all with the press. Took me about a 45minutes of puttering around to do (sort of messing with other stuff, playing with the dog… at the same time) and I have just over 1” OD and right around ½” ID now, I don’t think I’ll crush this easily.

JT, you were asking for a pic of what I was talking about earlier, here is what I was going to reinforce somehow:


Now I’m going to probably still weld that angle iron to the bottom of the die, not worry about reinforcing it and use that side for more precise bends in thinner sheet metal, and weld the round dies to the other side to use for heavier pieces. I measured and made sure and both will just fit between the rails horizontal rails of my press and I’ll probably add little tabs on the sides to automatically center it when I drop it in.
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Mark
(aka: Silverback, WS6 TA, JYDog, 83 Crossfire TA, mpikas, mmp...)
Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
BFH

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  #23  
Old 06-18-2006, 06:49 AM
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While I’m at it, anyone that has a pressbrake with round dies, do you mind measuring their diameter and distance apart?

Just eyeballing this it looks like something around 2.5” CL to CL will be about right but I’d love go know what the “professionally made” ones and for that matter any ones that are working well, are using.
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Mark
(aka: Silverback, WS6 TA, JYDog, 83 Crossfire TA, mpikas, mmp...)
Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
BFH
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  #24  
Old 06-21-2006, 02:50 PM
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So it’s done… sort of (done in the sense that it’s useable as it sits and I have other stuff to do so it will probably get used and modified/finished/painted some more as it goes).

This one shows a whole mess of things at once.
You can see that I added some spacers on the inside of the jaws to close down on a smaller blade. They have a threaded hole and are held in (not that they really need it but to make bolting it together a simple operation rather then trying to line up 5 pieces…) with the one bolt in the middle of each of the side rails.

Also, the only stock I had that I felt like using for the blade was some 3/16”, so since there was a ½” gap between rails the closest spacers were also 3/16”, but since I wanted to grab the blade and make sure that the blade is straight I ended up having to shim the side/clamping rails out with that combination. After digging for a while for something like some washers right around .030” thick, and conveniently, the bandsaw blade that I ripped most of the teeth off of in the trash can measured right around .028” (it was supposed to be .020”, grr harbor freight…), so with a little cutting and drilling it was declared a winner, you can see what I ended up with in that picture. With the teeth facing up the combination clamps the 3/16” thick blade perfectly.

Here you can see what I ended up with for the die assembly, and you can also see the blade.

Each side of the blade is beveled at a 50* angle so the included angle ends up being 80*, after thinking about this for a bit I just rigged a jig on my belt sander with 2 vise grips and a chunk of steel, making the angle perfectly repeatable across the whole length of the blade. The back side is just rounded so I can reverse it and put a nice radius bend.

The die, well, the angle iron on the top side in that pic is spaced apart about 1/8” and I ran a grinder up it to make it pretty much consistent the whole length, this lets me do really sharp bends in thin stock, the other side lets me pretty much do anything else. I ended up doing some math and came to the conclusion that 2.4” spacing for the tubes will let me bend anything to greater then a 90* angle so I measured 2.5” and then put a new grinding wheel in the angle grinder and ran it up the inside of that line, making a trench maybe 5/16” or so the length of the piece that the pipe sat in to be welded. It ended up just about dead on where I wanted it when it was welded together.
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Mark
(aka: Silverback, WS6 TA, JYDog, 83 Crossfire TA, mpikas, mmp...)
Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
BFH

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  #25  
Old 06-21-2006, 02:51 PM
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Here is the whole thing assembled


You can see how the parts stack together
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Mark
(aka: Silverback, WS6 TA, JYDog, 83 Crossfire TA, mpikas, mmp...)
Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
BFH

Last edited by cutter; 08-08-2010 at 07:50 PM. Reason: remove embedded images
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  #26  
Old 06-21-2006, 02:52 PM
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Finally, this is the whole deal in the press, with the angle iron side up for fine work:

And with the round side up for everything else:

You can see that I still haven’t really decided on retention, and really, it’s such a nice fit for the time being it really doesn’t need it. I putzed around bending everything I could find all last night and it showed no signs of coming loose. I’ll probably just drill it and pin it just for safety reasons, but as of right now it’s not necessary.

Springs and side guides don’t appear to be necessary either, it didn’t show any real tendency to try torque over or do anything weird. The only issue like that that I ran into is that the shoe assembly is really heavy, enough to stretch out the return springs on the press carriage so that it does not retract the last 1”. I’m going to take the carriage apart and modify it. I’m going to add pads to the side guides and make some kind of bushing to fit the head of the jack into the pocket in the top of the frame tighter, right now both have about 1/8”-1/4” slack that is just annoying. When I do that I’m going to shorten the links that hold the springs to hopefully get it to return the whole way.

One of the welds on the baseplate/die is sticking up enough that when I have the angle iron side down it doesn’t want to seat perfectly flat… I’ll have to grind that down.

While I’m on the subject of welds I think I figured out my tip melting issues. I tried a few things with the .023” wire and finally had best results with some of the antispatter gel and the wire feed around 85-90… REALLY flying. The problem is that I was getting some really (I mean REALLY) crappy looking welds (they were structurally fine, but I couldn’t get them to look nice to save my life) like that (the bad ones are all on the round die side, facing away from the pictures I’m not showing them to anyone ).

I finally decided to give up on the “the little 110v welders are optimized for the .02x” wire” thing and tried some .030” ER70S6… What a change. It was a slight adjustment to get nice welds with it (it’s much faster and much more heat), but after the 2nd or 3rd bead I got to a happy place and started zipping along. I was still on the hottest tap (4) and the wire feed was still at a fast, 55, but hell, it worked, that’s how I got the welds like the ones on the front of the tube/plate in the last picture. Like I said, super hot, I was surprised that I never ran up against the duty cycle of the little welder, I did end up generating enough heat in the thing that I actually melted the top 1-1/2” of the trash can I use next to the bench in the garage, which surprised me since if the welding table is tied up I often cut and weld on top of it…
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__________________
Mark
(aka: Silverback, WS6 TA, JYDog, 83 Crossfire TA, mpikas, mmp...)
Synchrowave 180 SD | MillerMatic 211MVP + Spoolmate | Hobart Handler 135 | Everlast Power Plasma 50
1960 Bridgeport J-head | Grizzly 10x22 | HF bandsaw | Rigid 4.5” angle grinder (+2 cheapie HF ones)
BFH

Last edited by cutter; 08-08-2010 at 07:51 PM. Reason: remove embedded images
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  #27  
Old 06-21-2006, 03:39 PM
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Looks good!
I didn't comment earlier because I couldn't figure out how the heck it was going to work. Now that I see all of the parts I understand.
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  #28  
Old 06-21-2006, 10:09 PM
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You are doing a great job and with a lot of patiences. It looks similar to mine.
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