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View Full Version : Calling John McCracken . . . . . . .


Markopolo
06-20-2005, 06:04 PM
Yo John (or anyone else that might be able to help).....

Can you tell about what model year this machine is by looking at it ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45031&item=7523927639&rd=1#ebayphotohosting

jpill
06-20-2005, 06:13 PM
Pre 1973 because of the vacuum idler. If the face plate is authentic it looks to be one of the 1960's redfaces. I think JT will confirm that that would make it one of the most desirable SA-200's to be had among the pipelining crowd.

Was that okay John?

Jeff

Franz
06-20-2005, 06:15 PM
Marko, I'll guarantee you that machine is a complete repaint with a new faceplate.
JT has the chart on his website, but you need the serial # and possibly the code # to date the machine.

jpill
06-20-2005, 06:26 PM
Of course Marko, Franz's machine is also one of the sought after 60's models
and you know whats been done to it. Also a very reasonable price I might add compared to what I paid for mine.

Jeff

Markopolo
06-20-2005, 06:27 PM
Marko, I'll guarantee you that machine is a complete repaint with a new faceplate.
JT has the chart on his website, but you need the serial # and possibly the code # to date the machine.

I know Uncle Franz, but I don't have the serial or code number. I just thought someone could give me a "ballpark" guess-timate.

I guess the old ones are almost as good as the new ones....(if they work)......and lot's cheaper !

Franz
06-20-2005, 06:41 PM
I think there are people who'd contend the older machines are better than the new machines. Old ones can be updated with the new idlers and other bells & whistles, but the new machines will never be built the way the old ones were.
Lincoln rarely had a machine come back when the company was run James Lincoln's way, and the men who built them earned damn good money doing their job right the first time. Funny thing, when the old man was running the company they didn't even need QC inspectors cause everybody was in charge of Quality.
The history of Lincoln Electric is very interesting, and a lot of Jap[anese manufacturing is based on James Lincoln's concepts.

Pile Buck
06-20-2005, 07:08 PM
Marko, about the only way I can describe to you how these machines run. Is just imagine setting way back in the seat of a Lincoln Town Car, your left hand draped over the steering wheel, and your right hand wrapped around the beverage of your choice…. These things are so smooth. Lincoln just has it’s own power, very hard to describe ;)

Not to hijack your thread, but this was just giving to me. What engine should I be looking for? No need for diesel, the days of me pushing a machine to the max are long gone. Would like to get a 4 or 6 cylinder gas engine for it. Was thinking of a little 6-cylinder Chevy, any better ideas?

Pile Buck
06-20-2005, 07:09 PM
The ID plate, Shield Arc, SAE 200, Volts 40, AMPS 200, RPM 1500

JTMcC.
06-20-2005, 07:11 PM
I really don't know. There are several indicators tho, it has a generator as opposed to an alternator (I don't know when they made that change), the leads bolt onto the front (I think '72 was the last year for that but I'm not sure), and it has the sharply broke front cover instead of the smoother one (I don't know when that was changed either). My '68 has the smooth front end.

'70 is about when they started putting some aluminum in them. Older is considered better by a lot of people.

So I'm no help but my best guess is early 60's to '67 at the latest.

He sure has it cleaned up nice doesn't he?

There's a guy on this site that knows where there are one or two SA-200's for a good price that were checked out by a welding machine repair shop. I won't speak for him but he might get ahold of you himself. I believe in the south east part of the country.

JTMcC.

JTMcC.
06-20-2005, 07:16 PM
Was thinking of a little 6-cylinder Chevy, any better ideas?


80" Harley-Davidson. Or an old Ford flathead V-8.

Get the serial number off that thing and you can check the year of manufacture on the last page of my website.

Quite a haul there! I like it.


JTMcC.

Markopolo
06-20-2005, 07:18 PM
Pile....That's a real beauty !.....(I LOVE old) !

Being the sentimental old fool that I am, I can see the writing on the wall: Lincoln may stop building the generators, and if I don't get one soon, I may never get one !......(I see they took the Classic II off the market already). :(

The others might be soon to follow !............... :( :( :(

7018
06-20-2005, 07:20 PM
Boy thats a nice machine!!If I hadn't gotten my lathe I'd bid on that. :D

JTMcC.
06-20-2005, 07:28 PM
Pile....That's a real beauty !.....(I LOVE old) !

Being the sentimental old fool that I am, I can see the writing on the wall: Lincoln may stop building the generators, and if I don't get one soon, I may never get one !......(I see they took the Classic II off the market already). :(

The others might be soon to follow !............... :( :( :(


I don't know how many tens of thousands of them are out there. But I expect your greatgrandkids will still be able to pick one up pretty easily.

I'll sell you my Classic II if you want it.

JTMcC.

Pile Buck
06-20-2005, 07:38 PM
old Ford flathead V-8.
WOW, will it really take a V-8 to rotate this thing? Or, you just like Ford
V-8s? That Miller 55-D Trailblazer I had, only had a 38-hp diesel, if I remember correctly :confused:

jpill
06-20-2005, 07:41 PM
There's a guy on this site that knows where there are one or two SA-200's for a good price that were checked out by a welding machine repair shop. I won't speak for him but he might get ahold of you himself. I believe in the south east part of the country.

JT you know one of those is off the market :D

The other is spoken for, so alas they are both off of the market.

Marko nothing on these machines are rocket science, and I might add that I consulted privately with gurus, shamans, and a man who runs a Lincoln generator machine in the Western part of the country on a daily basis.

Find a machine with straight sheetmetal, that welds, and doesn't smoke or pour oil and fix it up like a car restoration project. At the most you will have the machine of your dreams, at the least you will have a fixed up SA-200 that you can probably get $1000.00 more than you paid for it.

Just a fellow in the Southeastern part of the country,

Jeff

Pile Buck
06-20-2005, 07:52 PM
Get the serial number off that thing and you can check the year of manufacture on the last page of my website.

Quite a haul there! I like it.


JTMcC.
Not sure I’m using that chart correctly, but the closet number the chart has is, D-12664 = year 1937. The serial number on this machine is D-12225 Damn if this machine is that old; it’s only good for an anchor now :rolleyes:

JTMcC.
06-20-2005, 08:06 PM
WOW, will it really take a V-8 to rotate this thing? Or, you just like Ford
V-8s? That Miller 55-D Trailblazer I had, only had a 38-hp diesel, if I remember correctly :confused:


I'm just thinking something interesting, that's all.

Any old flathead would look stylin on that machine.

JTMcC.

storts
06-20-2005, 08:09 PM
Not sure I’m using that chart correctly, but the closet number the chart has is, D-12664 = year 1937. The serial number on this machine is D-12225 Damn if this machine is that old; it’s only good for an anchor now :rolleyes:
Carl,,My Old boss before I bought storts had the twin,,But a big old electric motor that his father in law, who started the co put on,,,Im feeling real old,,,Thats what I learned on,,,and the torpedo Lincoln,,one vertical,,on like a little missle,,,,Guess we arnt gettin any younger, :D ,Jack

Pile Buck
06-20-2005, 08:14 PM
I'm just thinking something interesting, that's all.

Any old flathead would look stylin on that machine.

JTMcC.
It would at that! ;) My first car, was a 1955 Ford Club Sedan with a 292 V-8, 3-speed on the column, with over drive. For such a small V-8 it had lots of power, considering it was wore out when I bought it :eek:

storts
06-20-2005, 08:14 PM
Yo John (or anyone else that might be able to help).....

Can you tell about what model year this machine is by looking at it ?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=45031&item=7523927639&rd=1#ebayphotohosting
He did a buetiful Job repainting it,,,wheres sberry?,,,Jack

boilerman
06-20-2005, 08:22 PM
Not to hijack your thread, but this was just giving to me. What engine should I be looking for? No need for diesel, the days of me pushing a machine to the max are long gone. Would like to get a 4 or 6 cylinder gas engine for it. Was thinking of a little 6-cylinder Chevy, any better ideas?


i just got rid of a ford 6 flat head...ran good ...no smoke ....guy was making a flat belt driven saw mill

JTMcC.
06-20-2005, 08:29 PM
If a guy had the time, money and inclination, he could put a small steam engine on that old girl. Then when the neighbor came over to have something welded you could throw a little coal to er, set the hand throttle to about 1450rpm and weld away. Of course you'd have to have a whistle on your steam engine.

I'd consider you the coolest guy in the pacific nw if you did that, hands down, no question about it :D


JTMcC.

madam X
06-20-2005, 08:50 PM
Marko, I'll guarantee you that machine is a complete repaint with a new faceplate.
JT has the chart on his website, but you need the serial # and possibly the code # to date the machine.

http://www.cutterod.com/bear_stuff/LGoL/envelope.gif You can email the seller and request that information. If he didn't cough it up, I'd be suspicious.

<gently coaxing the thread back on the tracks>

Pile Buck
06-20-2005, 08:56 PM
If a guy had the time, money and inclination, he could put a small steam engine on that old girl.
LMAO, I have a really good friend that he and his grand dad collect and rebuild old steam engines. The grand pa is a retired machinist form Boeing, you would just die to see his shop, totally amazing the things this guy builds. He told me he quite making his own spark plugs, just takes to much time. He builds carburetors from scratch! Here is a link to their web site.
http://www.oldengine.org/members/sherman/

JTMcC.
06-20-2005, 09:13 PM
Those guys have some nice stuff.

I think the guy selling the pipeliner doesn't have the numbers off of it, someone already ask for them.

It's a very clean machine.


JTMcC.

Franz
06-20-2005, 09:33 PM
In my humble opinion, there is something wrong about the ePay machine. A year or so back, somebody was selling repro Lincoln nameplates and decals on ePay, and that machine looks to have them.

Markopolo
06-20-2005, 09:56 PM
Well Uncle Franz......I just feel (in my heart) that I want to be a member of the "SA200 club". I know I'm not being practical, but it's just one of my desires.

I know the newer machines like the Rangers and Trailblazers will stomp an SA200 in performance (and I'll probably end up getting one of those also).....

But like I said.........I've got this little problem about loving OLD STUFF...... :o

Franz
06-20-2005, 10:00 PM
You've just got a thing for that machine cause it's in Michigan.

Don't blame me if it drips oil out the rear main faster than you can pour it in the top.

jpill
06-20-2005, 10:18 PM
I know the newer machines like the Rangers and Trailblazers will stomp an SA200 in performance (and I'll probably end up getting one of those also).....[/I] :o


Whoe whoe whoe, do not sully this semi-hijacked thread with crazy talk of practical machines like those two you mentioned. ;)

This thread is about old SA-200's and steam powered welding machines. :D

Jeff

JTMcC.
06-20-2005, 10:33 PM
I know the newer machines like the Rangers and Trailblazers will stomp an SA200 in performance (and I'll probably end up getting one of those also).....




My goodnes that's a sick comment. To compare a Continental, a true heavy duty industrial engine, to those two cylinder, 3600 rpm, change the oil every 50 hours (!) and they hold like 1 1/2 quarts air cooled lawn mower motors?
That's major league wrong.


JTMcC.

Markopolo
06-20-2005, 10:45 PM
Sorry John, I Might have misspoke myself.....I wasn't refering to the engine, but rather the welding performance......

Wasn't it yourself that said Lincoln was "puffing" the new chopper machines at your last convention ?

jpill
06-20-2005, 10:52 PM
To be perfectly honest with you Marko that machine does look almost to good to be true. I would want to run it on high idle for about ten minutes and then burn a handful of rod on several different settings before throwing in my bid.

I mean there is nothing wrong with the old girl being all gussied up to go to a party, but I would just as soon see the old whore in all her glory dressed in work clothes with a few oil runs here and there.

Jeff

DDA52
06-20-2005, 11:31 PM
A trick my old shop used when selling oil burners was to put gear oil in the crank case....stopped the smoking for a little while. All you had to do was smell the oil...gear oil stinks....can't do that online. :(

Marko, just go visit the Franzirosa...once past the gaurds, you will be taken care of. At least you would know what you'd be getting.

Sberry
06-21-2005, 12:01 AM
Marko, next time you are up hunting it will be fall and I will be slowed down,,, you can sit out here for a couple days with a box of lo-hi and get it out of your system,,, ha. The 200 is great for someone that needs one but notice what I carry on my truck, Franz uses a Bobcat while the 200 sits in the weeds.

JTMcC.
06-21-2005, 12:10 AM
Sorry John, I Might have misspoke myself.....I wasn't refering to the engine, but rather the welding performance......

Wasn't it yourself that said Lincoln was "puffing" the new chopper machines at your last convention ?


The welding performance is no match either from any alternator, unless it's modified via chopper.

And yes Lincoln is pushing the Vantage 300 to the pipeline world, but there is a large difference between a vantage 300 and the 2 cylinder machines you mentioned.

Real welding machines with real industrial engines are a far cry from the lawn mower type powered machines. Two seperate and distinct classes that can't properly be compared.

Those 2 cylinder alternators are fine for people that don't know the difference, and they are just right for people who only weld every once in a while on junk iron, or people who need auxillary power generation with a bit of welding capability built in. But they are in the toy catagory for serious welding work. They are the "110 volt migs" of the engine drive class. Fine in their place, but very limited.

JTMcC.

DDA52
06-21-2005, 09:32 AM
Those 2 cylinder alternators are fine for people that don't know the difference, and they are just right for people who only weld every once in a while on junk iron, or people who need auxillary power generation with a bit of welding capability built in. But they are in the toy catagory for serious welding work. They are the "110 volt migs" of the engine drive class. Fine in their place, but very limited.

JTMcC.


Spoken like a true pipeliner. :rolleyes: I would call structural /precast way more than hobby work. If I get a chance, I'll take a pic of a structural job I go by. There are maybe 6/7 Bobcats or Tb's on the deck. They need a little more than a 110v mig. I'm thinking. If the welder was such a miserable piece of junk, I don't think we'd be using them. In my world, if you make a bad weld, you and someone else dies and dies quickly. Weld off 40-60,000 lb panels with a little MIG? Never. With a Bobcat or Ranger...everyday.

Try a better analogy next time.

Franz
06-21-2005, 09:52 AM
If only JT had told me sooner. Here I bought mine cause it's propane powered, and I can take it inside of a building instead of pulling a few hundred feet of cable. Then again, I have never pounded on the Bobcat all day the way JT does his machine, so I really don't know how long a Bobcat would hold up doing that.
BTW, I've probably used the generator function a total of half an hour in the time I've owned the machine. When I need a generator I need a real generator.

JTMcC.
06-21-2005, 10:01 AM
Bobcats and trailblazer class machines are for part time welding, period. They have a 50 hour oil change interval, right? That means I have to stop working and change my oil every 4 days some weeks. Come on. We would be replacing the 2 cylinder motors every year, come on again. And stopping at least once a day to add fuel. None of this is acceptable in an industrial machine.
I've welded my share of structural steel and I garantee you running 232 wire all day will almost overcome a 300 amp diesel machine, no one in their right mind would use a 2 cyl. class machine for this work.
Light duty, intermittant welding is what those machines are capable of. And there is a lot of that work out there and a lot of those machines doing it. But they are very limited.

JTMcC.

Sberry
06-21-2005, 10:04 AM
I have a little Weldanpower 6000 AC/DC 210 that I finally gave up trying to kill. I finally had to repaint it since it wouldnt quit. I have ran it day in and day out on more than one occasion, not like a pipeliner would but it welds well. The hobbiest or even the small shop or part timer just doesnt weld enough to carry around a monster machine. The work doesnt demand it, the hours dont. Everyone except the pipers that has one (maybe a few exceptions) have them parked, they finally rust up or get sold usually for half what they paid for them. If you dont have another genset it is a good 2 for 1 tool as far as I can see.

DDA52
06-21-2005, 10:22 AM
I have used a Bobcat running 175a Dc all day for six months straight. I do know of several companies that exceed that regularly. Oil change at 100 hours on the new ones if you please. I changed mine once a week on the weekend. It takes 10 minutes...not that big of a deal. Add fuel during the day? You've never used one I see. My 8 gal tank would last at least 12 hour running straight out. I know this because my idle solenoid wire came off and that is how long a full tank lasted. The new tanks are even bigger. With proper PM, those engines will last upwards of 4k hours. I know the Lincs are better, but to say the little ones are not capable of running hard day in anday out is just not an informed opinion. And comparing them to a 110v mig is assinine. They will run 5/32 7018 all day long and not blink. Can't do that with a little "mig". 100% duty cycle means just that....run it till you drop.

Franz
06-21-2005, 10:37 AM
JT, I'll be the first to admit I have no damn desire to pound a machine 8 hours a day any more. I damn sure don't have any desire to drag even 100 feet of cable any more either. My business doesn't justify owning or operating the SA200 any more, and I damn well ain't goin lookin for work that will justify that machine at this stage of my life. For that reason, one damn fine Lincoln is for sale, so it won't sit in a field rusting up.
The machine deserves to be owned by a young fellow who will work it and make himself a good living, and I want to see it go to somebody who can and will use it. That's probably why it isn't on ePay for some speculator to make a buck off.

jpill
06-21-2005, 10:51 AM
All this talk of justified and practicalities gives me a headache.

Marko do us all a favor and just buy Franz's machine. :D

Jeff

Franz
06-21-2005, 11:06 AM
All this talk of justified and practicalities gives me a headache.

Marko do us all a favor and just buy Franz's machine. :D

Jeff

Jeff, take 2 aspirins, and post in a few hours letting me know if the headache went away. Also send me $20- for the medicle advice. If you use PayPal make it $21- to cover the fee.

JTMcC.
06-21-2005, 02:10 PM
Earth to Bobcat owners, earth to Bobcat owners, do you read me?

You girls crack me up.

6 months straight????? Sorry but at my age I'm going to have to probably work another 20 years, Lord willing. And I've already worked over 25 years, I don't think 6 months straight is going to do much for me.

If you truly believe that these little 2 cylinder gas engines (which are really pretty nice motors) will output the same amount of work as a true industrial stationary diesel, then there is no sense continuing this conversation.

Have a day, over and out.

JTMcC.

Jeff
06-21-2005, 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by JTMcC.
Those 2 cylinder alternators are fine for people that don't know the difference, and they are just right for people who only weld every once in a while on junk iron, or people who need auxillary power generation with a bit of welding capability built in. But they are in the toy catagory for serious welding work. They are the "110 volt migs" of the engine drive class. Fine in their place, but very limited.

JTMcC.

After hauling a SAM-400 for 20 years, I would like to think I know the differnce.
I put lots of hours and lots of gas through that old horse.
Now I have a Ranger 305. It weghs 560lbs, not 2400
2cyl vs 6 cyl, 8 gallons of gas at night instead of 15
Still have my reemote and output gauges, and CV output
I can gouge with 5/16 carbons.
Runs 7018 real nice, the same for fluxcore and daulshield.
$ 3500.00 vs 9000 for a classic 300 D

If I were putting on a couple thousand hours per year I may think differently, but for now I am happy
Jeff

7018
06-21-2005, 02:53 PM
Earth to Bobcat owners, earth to Bobcat owners, do you read me?

You girls crack me up.

6 months straight????? Sorry but at my age I'm going to have to probably work another 20 years, Lord willing. And I've already worked over 25 years, I don't think 6 months straight is going to do much for me.

If you truly believe that these little 2 cylinder gas engines (which are really pretty nice motors) will output the same amount of work as a true industrial stationary diesel, then there is no sense continuing this conversation.

Have a day, over and out.

JTMcC.
Now just why in the He!! do you think we're Pu$$ys because we run 2 cylinder welders,Just because you run a pipe liner doesn't make you the Cock of the walk,My Bobcat has made me alot of money,And it will make me alot more!!!!!!!It seems to me that you put alot of people down just over chit like this!!!!!!

Pile Buck
06-21-2005, 02:58 PM
Well, I’ve pissed enough people off today, and I surly don’t want to piss any of you guys off, because I respect, and like you guys. Everybody here has their points. I personally think like JT says, when your running a machine damn near wide open for 10 to 12-hours a day, I know I want some reserve power. I can’t tell you how many times I was close enough to my old 55-D when I would strike an arc with over 400-amps dialed up, and I could hear the engine (4-cylinder diesel) just grown, the rpm’s would drop, then she would scratch her way back up to speed. I’m just not sure those 2-cylinders gas engines can take that day in and day out. I could be wrong, but it would be the first time. :rolleyes: :D

jpill
06-21-2005, 03:11 PM
Can't we all just hold hands and sing Kum-bah-yah?



Burning rods with an SA-200,
Jeff

JTMcC.
06-21-2005, 03:12 PM
After hauling a SAM-400 for 20 years, I would like to think I know the differnce.
I put lots of hours and lots of gas through that old horse.
Now I have a Ranger 305. It weghs 560lbs, not 2400
2cyl vs 6 cyl, 8 gallons of gas at night instead of 15
Still have my reemote and output gauges, and CV output
I can gouge with 5/16 carbons.
Runs 7018 real nice, the same for fluxcore and daulshield.
$ 3500.00 vs 9000 for a classic 300 D

If I were putting on a couple thousand hours per year I may think differently, but for now I am happy
Jeff[/QUOTE]


You guys are a defensive bunch aren't you? The output and duty cycle of those machines are in print for all to see, no need to argue what your machine will do. But, it won't do it all day every day year after year like a bigger industrial engine will, my take is just that simple. No more, no less.

JTMcC.

JTMcC.
06-21-2005, 03:22 PM
Now just why in the He!! do you think we're Pu$$ys because we run 2 cylinder welders,Just because you run a pipe liner doesn't make you the Cock of the walk,My Bobcat has made me alot of money,And it will make me alot more!!!!!!!It seems to me that you put alot of people down just over chit like this!!!!!!


Good grief man, go back and re read what I said. Nowhere is there anything even remotly related to what you imagined up in your mind.
I haven't put anyone down, I said simply that those 2 cyl. high rpm motors won't perform anywhere near the work of a true industrial motor. How you got from there to the somewhat vulgar comments you came up with is beyond me. Those machines are the 110 volt migs of the engine drive world. May be very usefull to you, may be just exactly what you need, if so then go head on brother. But they STILL won't put out the work, nor last as long as any of the gas or diesel engines in larger machines.
And I garantee you I never made any comment so entirely and increadibly stupid as to gage someones "manliness" by the type of welding machine they own, where do you come up with that trash????
Read what I wrote, if you don't understand it then ask for clarification, but don't dream up a bunch of crap I never said.


JTMcC.

JTMcC.
06-21-2005, 03:29 PM
Flame on girls, I've explained myself 28 times, if you don't see my point by now then it's a waste of time so I'm done.

carry on,
JTMcC.

jpill
06-21-2005, 03:29 PM
Kum-bah-yah my Lord..........

Sberry
06-21-2005, 03:44 PM
We spliced some columns on top of a building running SA200's, dials wide open. We used huge rods, seems like 7/32 or something. At first I didnt think those little machines would push them but they did, rod after rod as fast as you could put them in all day. It was in the middle of winter though, about 10 degrees out, 20 on a good day, they really groaned but kept right on it, probably would have cooked lesser machines. If I was headed out to buy a new machine today I personally would be looking at a Trailblazer 300A though. I am kinda up there with the old fart, I havnt got much desire to weld all day but the TB looks like it would do darn near everything, might even make lunch if you ask it nicely.

Jeff
06-21-2005, 04:02 PM
Ease up,
I wasn't being defensive at all, I was just stating MY situation.
I USED to run a machine 8-12hrs 5-7days a week. Now I do not.
I can have 300amps in a small package. I wouldn't compare it to a 110v mig, But it is a small machine. would I head cross country welding with a 2cyl? NO WAY
I just offered a real world take on a particular machine that has seen some hard use. Tons of hours? No. but hard use
Seems a lot of threads are turning to arguments these days.
Enjoy your life
Jeff

jpill
06-21-2005, 04:07 PM
Oh lord Kum-bah -yah........

rickairmedic
06-21-2005, 04:11 PM
caint we all just get along :D


Rick

Franz
06-21-2005, 04:14 PM
At 6pm Eastern DST, we will all face Lost Wages Nevada, on our knees, and place our foreheads on the ground chanting JT McCracken is always RIGHT 19 times.
After doing that, we'll all begin wondering how JT SuperPipeliner has so damn much time to post on this board the last couple months, since he should be out there burnin rods.

Jeff
06-21-2005, 04:26 PM
That's just plain ornery

jpill
06-21-2005, 04:28 PM
After doing that, we'll all begin wondering how JT SuperPipeliner has so damn much time to post on this board the last couple months, since he should be out there burnin rods.

TWEEEEEEETTTTT!!!!!!

Yellow penalty flag on the 50 yard line.

Out of bounds topic!

First down.

Jeff

elvis8
06-21-2005, 05:22 PM
At 6pm Eastern DST, we will all face Lost Wages Nevada, on our knees, and place our foreheads on the ground chanting JT McCracken is always RIGHT 19 times.
:p :p :p

DDA52
06-21-2005, 05:50 PM
Earth to Bobcat owners, earth to Bobcat owners, do you read me?

You girls crack me up.

6 months straight????? Sorry but at my age I'm going to have to probably work another 20 years, Lord willing. And I've already worked over 25 years, I don't think 6 months straight is going to do much for me.

If you truly believe that these little 2 cylinder gas engines (which are really pretty nice motors) will output the same amount of work as a true industrial stationary diesel, then there is no sense continuing this conversation.

Have a day, over and out.

JTMcC.

Geez Louise..and you actually wonder why we get hot at your posts??? Read what you said and think about it. The girls crack in person wouldn't be pretty...here it isn't a big deal....I gave the 6 months as an example of a high volume job where my machine didn't burst into flames etc. And I do believe I said the Linc's were better, but the Bobcat/TB ain't no toylike you insinuate.

You go running everybody down and wonder why we get upset....amazing...absolutely amazing. As far as I recall, nobody died and gave pipeliners the monopoly on welding. We should get as much respect as the next guy.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...It ain't what you say, it's how you say it. Tact will go a long way.

Crap....I don't know why I let myself get sucked into these things.

boilerman
06-21-2005, 06:26 PM
After doing that, we'll all begin wondering how JT SuperPipeliner has so damn much time to post on this board the last couple months, since he should be out there burnin rods.


i've been wondering about this also for a long time

jpill
06-21-2005, 06:42 PM
The original machine in question is now over $3000.00 if anyone cares.

Please once and for all can we all bury the SA-200 against all other welding machines of the world, my pee-pee is bigger than your pee-pee death match steel cage challenge?

Jeff

Owner of an SA-200 that is only a piece of equipment in a large stable of other tools!

Still singing Kum-bah-yah.......

Jeff
06-21-2005, 07:17 PM
It must be fairly old, did anyone notice the crank stored on the side?
Jeff
Ranger 305
Sam-400
Trailblazer55D
Big Blue Airpak

Markopolo
06-21-2005, 07:58 PM
#1 - NO !....I didn't notice it (the crank) until you mentioned it !
#2 - It is now over $3000, and a "moot" subject for me.
#3 - I value Johns opinion as much as I value all of your opinions. Because one weldor might need a different machine to make his living than the machine you need to make your living shouldn't be a point of argument !
We're a "family", and we don't need to be POKING each other on things like what is the best welding machine ! I seriously doubt that there is anyone on this rag that will say that an SA200 is a lousy welding machine.

Do I need one ?.......OF COURSE NOT !.......but is it against the law for me to WANT ONE ?

Now there's guys out there that make a fine living with Bobcat's, Trailblazers, Legends, and Rangers......Are they any less of a weldor just because they can do their jobs with those machines ?......NO !.....But there are certain jobs that CAN'T be done with those machines......and I suppose thats why we have SA200's, Classic II's, Big 40's, Pro 300's, SAE 400's, Big Blue Turbo's.........and others !

"You can't turn different size nuts with the same wrench" ! :)

jpill
06-21-2005, 08:11 PM
It must be fairly old, did anyone notice the crank stored on the side?

The crank don't mean much my 73 SA-200 has a place for one. I think they came with cranks up until the 80's.

But the dead giveaway on the age for me was the R-57 vacuum idler on the machine. Lincoln went to electronic solenoid idlers on the SA-200 around the middle of 73 according to my paperwork (mine has electronic idle), so the machine had to be older than 73.

Also according to Franz's serial number his machine is a 69. In the picture it has a smooth front panel. John pointed out the machine in question had the sharp broke front panel and that his own 68 had the smooth front. So the machine has to be ealier than 68.

(I just got thru watching CSI)

Jeff

Pile Buck
06-21-2005, 08:16 PM
Well Uncle Franz......I just feel (in my heart) that I want to be a member of the "SA200 club". I know I'm not being practical, but it's just one of my desires.
Marko, I like your style, and I agree with you. ;) I used to have a T-shirt that my girls bought for me. It said something to the effect “He who dies with the most tools, WINS” I’m trying my best to win :D

Jeff
06-21-2005, 08:22 PM
Marko,
It's hard to weld with an SA-200 and not want one :D

jpill
06-21-2005, 08:27 PM
We all like different machines, kind of like we all like different types of women.
Cause if everyone liked the same old gal it would be one HE11 of a fight at last call!!

Jeff

Scott V
06-21-2005, 08:33 PM
Do I need one ?.......OF COURSE NOT !.......but is it against the law for me to WANT ONE ?

Not yet but you better get it while you still can. ;)

I never been real happy getting something other
then what I really wanted.
Ps- I loved my little Ranger 305 because of how it ran wire.
It also could run a pretty decent plasma cutter off of it.
I really like the old LE 200 AE I have now, perfect for
quiet electric power generation. It will also weld as nice
as I need it too. That's the key, will it do the job for you?
Sounds like the Lincoln you want will do the job. :cool:

boilerman
06-21-2005, 08:40 PM
#"You can't turn different size nuts with the same wrench" ! :)


HHHHHMMMMMM!....crescent wrench

Markopolo
06-21-2005, 09:11 PM
HHHHHMMMMMM!....crescent wrench

I KNEW you were going to say that !....... :rolleyes:

Franz
06-21-2005, 09:15 PM
CRANK, Marko, you want a crank, mine has one. OK it's a homemade crank, and it's got yellow coating on it to make it easy to find when my stepson left it laying, but it's a crank, and I use it about once a month to roll the engine over a couple turns. I'll throw the crank in, and let you use my plasma to cut toe roof off the hurse when you arrive to pick it up.

Boilerman- that item has been renomenclatured, it's now the universal Metric/American adjustable wrench. We're trying to make the Europeeontheirshoe people happy you know.

Markopolo
06-21-2005, 09:40 PM
Damn it Uncle Franz........You've always represented your SA200 to be a "creampuff". I'm getting to the point where I may just have to come up there and grab that thing ! :eek:

Markopolo
06-21-2005, 09:44 PM
Damn it Uncle Franz........You've always represented your SA200 to be a "creampuff". I'm getting to the point where I may just have to come up there and grab that thing ! :eek:

"GRAB" = cutting that antique out of the weeds, figuring out how to get it back down to Florida, and actually cranking it up and see if it will run ! :D

MotorDoctor
06-21-2005, 11:20 PM
"You can't turn different size nuts with the same wrench" ! Damn it, I'm alway a day late and a dollar short, I wanted to throw in that crescent wrench crack, but boilerman beat me to it! :cool: Actually my machine shop teacher would have beat me sense-less (even more so than usual) for calling it that, it's an adjustable jaw wrench, crescent is a brand name like Heliarc. Down here the proper term is Mexican socket set :p

Franz
06-22-2005, 12:46 AM
Damn it, I'm alway a day late and a dollar short, I wanted to throw in that crescent wrench crack, but boilerman beat me to it! :cool: Actually my machine shop teacher would have beat me sense-less (even more so than usual) for calling it that, it's an adjustable jaw wrench, crescent is a brand name like Heliarc. Down here the proper term is Mexican socket set :p

You probably would still be wearing the 12" adjustable wrench for an earring if he'd have seen you pulling on it in the wrong direction too. I got slapped up with the one I threw one day, in front of my Old Man as he reminded me tools have feelings too, and to use it properly. He damn well figured whaling on me was a proper use of a 10" crecent wrench, and I've still got it hanging on the wall to remind me.

Doc J
06-22-2005, 10:05 AM
Damn it Uncle Franz........You've always represented your SA200 to be a "creampuff". I'm getting to the point where I may just have to come up there and grab that thing ! :eek:

Just don't quit your day job......More people die then welding machines....

Franz
06-22-2005, 10:51 AM
Just don't quit your day job......More people die then welding machines....

Be nice to your baby brother Doc. Maybe he'll let you codrive the hurse up here. Just don't take him up on any offers to catch a nap in the back.

DDA52
06-22-2005, 11:14 AM
You never know, Doc....little bro may need to build a steel casket for some dear departed with a weight problem....a big problem. :eek:

A bobcat or ranger would do that nicely too......too bad it is a toy and not worthy of the welding world. :rolleyes:

moe1942
06-22-2005, 12:09 PM
Don, this welder thing reminds me of motorcycles. There is one group that won't even acknowledge some one on a non Harley bike. If you ain't ridin a Harley you ain't s**t.

I have four welders and they suit my needs perfectly and one happens to be a Bobcat. I think the folks here are in the same category and have as much welder as they need.

I don't plan on going squirrel hunting with an RPG either. :D

moe1942
06-22-2005, 12:33 PM
Quote:

Flame on girls, I've explained myself 28 times, if you don't see my point by now then it's a waste of time so I'm done.

carry on,
JTMcC.



What the **** is this girls ****! I don't remember seeing any of the SFT ladies post here.

storts
06-22-2005, 01:25 PM
Marko, I'll guarantee you that machine is a complete repaint with a new faceplate.
JT has the chart on his website, but you need the serial # and possibly the code # to date the machine.
Franz,,,stupid question, But what year did they start putting the hobbs meters on for your hours,,or were they a option,,,My Lincoln,,Didnt even offer it, and I bought that brand new from the welding supply house in 1977??????? Just wondering,,Thanks, Jack

Franz
06-22-2005, 03:00 PM
Jack I'm 90% certain hourmeters have always been an option.
Now I gotta wander out to the weeds and look at the residue of the one I bought used in 1965 and verify that it has a meter on it, just to be sure, but I think it has one.

Jeff
06-22-2005, 05:08 PM
My SAM-400 is a 1979 model, and an hour meter wasn't even an option.
Jeff

Franz
06-22-2005, 06:11 PM
The 1963 machine has an hour meter on it, so they were available back then.

JTMcC.
06-22-2005, 06:31 PM
The old timers tell me that Lincoln first put hour meters on it the 80's. Of course everybody put their own on for years before that. The same oldtimers say that starters were an option up until about 1970, when they became standard equipment. Nobody would spend the money for a starter when they had a welders helper that had to crank the thing. Most old ones have been retrofit with starters by now. Almost every 50's model I see has a starter on it. Hand cranks were standard well into the 70's and I'm guessing maybe up into the 80's.

JTMcC.

Doc J
06-22-2005, 08:15 PM
Be nice to your baby brother Doc. Maybe he'll let you codrive the hurse up here. Just don't take him up on any offers to catch a nap in the back.

Dear Uncle Farnz. I bet I've gotten out of more Herse's (NOTE SPELLING) then most people.
BTW dooes eye bee geeetting thee "Twaine" award nows? :D

Franz
06-22-2005, 08:24 PM
Dear Uncle Farnz. I bet I've gotten out of more Herse's (NOTE SPELLING) then most people.
BTW dooes eye bee geeetting thee "Twaine" award nows? :D

Now Doc, don't go gettin all spell happy. I go back to the days of Caddilac HURSES with the suicide doors. The Superior Coach dealer here also owned Sterling Siren, and set me up with a tradein for a service vehicle so I could run all over NY servicing fire house sirens. I never could talk him into putting a fire engine red paintjob on that old girl though.

jpill
06-22-2005, 09:00 PM
Nobody would spend the money for a starter when they had a welders helper that had to crank the thing.

JTMcC.

I'm guessing the helpers also knew how to tune a magneto pretty well to! :D

Jeff

Markopolo
06-22-2005, 09:01 PM
Sirens ?........ :p

Uncle Franz, I have a great big ol' Federal that I have mounted in my flower planter out front.....(out of sight, of course).

I light that baby up on New Years Eve, right at Midnight.....and you should see the lights come on in the neighborhood ! :p :p :p

Franz
06-22-2005, 09:02 PM
I'm guessing the helpers also knew how to tune a magneto pretty well to! :D

Jeff

Any really smart helper knew what a 6 volt battery and set of jumper wires were for, so the magneto could be colder than a welldigger's a$$ and you'd still have a spark that was hotter than hell.

madam X
06-22-2005, 09:30 PM
Dear Uncle Farnz. I bet I've gotten out of more Herse's (NOTE SPELLING) then most people.
BTW dooes eye bee geeetting thee "Twaine" award nows? :D

I'm not the final judge but that submission is too forced. It has to seem as though it just flowed onto your screen without thinking.

"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please."

Twain was amazing :)

Markopolo
06-22-2005, 09:34 PM
* I WONDER *........

Does anyone know when Lincoln stopped using the Continental engines, and started using the General Motors engines (on their gasoline SA200's) ?

I know they used to use Perkins diesels up until a year or two ago, until they thought it was "politically correct" to Ba$tardize them with "Jap-Crap" Kabooties.......

I can see the writing on the wall......"In my lifetime, Lincoln will no longer offer a D.C. generator machine" ! :(

jpill
06-22-2005, 09:40 PM
If you look at the manuals on the Lincoln site the first one for the Continental TM-27 engine is dated November 1992. Didn't find anything on the GM

Jeff

Franz
06-22-2005, 09:58 PM
Marko, strictly from my memory, Lincoln switched from Continental to GM at least 10 years back, and the propoganda when they made the switch was that Continental could no longer meet emission standards. Around the same time, Continental was going thru a shakeup of their own. Damned if I remember an exact date though.

The switch from Perkins to Kubota was because Perkins couldn't meet import emission requirements. Don't underestimate those Kubotas, they are a very good engine, just not as good as a US made Yanmar.

Markopolo
06-22-2005, 10:16 PM
Now Uncle Franz, I KNOW Yanmar is a reliable engine (from personal experience).......but they, too, are "Yapaneese" :confused:

Markopolo
06-22-2005, 10:21 PM
Now Uncle Franz, I KNOW Yanmar is a reliable engine (from personal experience).......but they, too, are "Yapaneese" :confused:

Had a two cylinder, 22 h.p. unit in a tractor........ That clunked along like the pistons were swapping cylinders.......but it sip fuel like a baby......run all day on three or four gallons !......(if you could get it started on a cold day).

JTMcC.
06-22-2005, 10:27 PM
I'm guessing the helpers also knew how to tune a magneto pretty well to! :D

Jeff

Those magneto's are about as simple as it gets, points, condenser, cap and rotor. If it's turning, and not under water, it's making fire.


JTMcC.

JTMcC.
06-22-2005, 10:31 PM
JT SuperPipeliner

That won't stand up, anyone paying attention knows I don't blow my own horn. I do work with some of the slickest in the world tho.

JTMcC.

JTMcC.
06-22-2005, 10:36 PM
After doing that, we'll all begin wondering how JT SuperPipeliner has so damn much time to post on this board the last couple months, since he should be out there burnin rods.

A terminal illness in my immediate family has kept me very close to home for more than the last two months.
Outside of that, I bid work from this chair I'm in now.
And my fab yard is within 100 yards of my back door and we have built a couple of jobs out back lately.


JTMcC.

Franz
06-22-2005, 10:37 PM
Had a two cylinder, 22 h.p. unit in a tractor........ That clunked along like the pistons were swapping cylinders.......but it sip fuel like a baby......run all day on three or four gallons !......(if you could get it started on a cold day).

Marko, you real sure that tractor wasn't a 240D? Yanmar has stopped importing tractors to the US, and the 2 cyl diesels haven't been built since about 83, and yer right, they are a SOB to wind up in the cold, I have one sitting in the garage. You just gotta know the tricks, like propane torches + Yanmar + running.
There is a HUGE Yanmar plant in the Carolinas building engines for construction equipment and John Deer tractors. There's very little imprortation from Japan other than parts.

DDA52
06-22-2005, 11:25 PM
There is a guy around here somewhere that is chopping SA200's down to fit sideways in a standard pickup bed and replacing the engine with a 3 cyl Yanmar diesel. Price tag is around $5-6K. Don't know much more than that about what he does to them. Got a friend of mine that is going to do it one day.

Markopolo
06-24-2005, 08:48 AM
How about this one....$1675.00 doesn't sound unreasonable.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67043&item=7525992577&rd=1

cutter
06-24-2005, 09:42 AM
How about this one....$1675.00 doesn't sound unreasonable.......


LOL! Marko, why are you so determined to get screwed by a stranger when Franz is willing & ready to do it cheaper? :D

jpill
06-24-2005, 10:04 AM
Marko look pretty close at the pictures someone shot a coat of paint all over that machine without too much regard for where it might go, or what got covered up. Thats not saying it might not be a great machine for that price. I paid $2000.00 for mine in its work clothes but running strong. I personally prefer to buy used equipment au natural sans fresh paint, mainly because I feel that you can read a lot about how a piece of machinery was used or abused while checking the machine out without the distraction of fresh paint getting in the way.

Just my 2cts.

Jeff

Jeff
06-24-2005, 10:06 AM
Marko,
Maybe you would like a little bigger machine

Jeff
06-24-2005, 10:07 AM
6 cyl engine, not a puny 4cyl

Jeff
06-24-2005, 10:10 AM
jpill is right on the money. you can hide a lot of evil with paint.

7018
06-24-2005, 10:41 AM
How about this one....$1675.00 doesn't sound unreasonable.......

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=67043&item=7525992577&rd=1
If I wanted that machine I'd do the starting bid!!!And as far as the paint goes I try to keep my stuff looking clean an nice,I think I would email the guy see if you can get his phone number and ask him what I wanted to know!!!If he is willing to do that he made be telling the truth.....

Shade Tree Welder
06-24-2005, 10:49 AM
..I personally prefer to buy used equipment au natural sans fresh paint, mainly because I feel that you can read a lot about how a piece of machinery was used or abused while checking the machine out without the distraction of fresh paint getting in the way.

A Rustoleum rebuild covers up alot but doesn't fix a damn thing!!! I see alot of them with tractors at consignment sales and auctions! I run.

jpill
06-24-2005, 10:50 AM
I think I would email the guy see if you can get his phone number and ask him what I wanted to know!!!If he is willing to do that he made be telling the truth.....

I fully agree, just the liberal coverage of EVERYTHING (exception of the faceplate) with fresh paint kind of turns me off.

Jeff

Markopolo
06-24-2005, 10:55 AM
OK, OK.....guys......you talked me out of it. :( * humph *

arcdawg
06-24-2005, 11:08 AM
just like I run from a chick that has too much make up on............that crap can hide a lot ! :eek:


dawg

DDA52
06-24-2005, 11:08 AM
It could be as simple as it looked like crap...old paint and dirt will do that. Maybe he just spruced it up for sale?? Just thinking outloud.
Edit: I don't like it when they paint the engines though...makes me nervous about them.
FWIW, Marko, Franz's creampuff is still there......The devil you know and all that. ;)


Or just get a Ranger/Bobus......oops, I went there! :rolleyes:

7018
06-24-2005, 11:11 AM
Or just get a Ranger/Bobus......oops, I went there! :rolleyes:

And you said you weren't going to say nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

DDA52
06-24-2005, 11:19 AM
And you said you weren't going to say nothing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, it was just too easy. What can I say?....I'm weak when it is too easy.


I'll stand in the corner for the rest of the day. :o ;) Good thing too...I don't wanna go to work! Still recovering from last night and I have drunk all the coffee. ...Maybe I'll go to work. Bills and all. :rolleyes:

jpill
06-24-2005, 11:27 AM
Don't let us talk you out of something you really want Marko. I just happened to luck upon mine but still conferred with John about things to look out for before purchasing it. It also helped that my machine had been previously checked out at a service shop in Houston and had papers to prove it. Hindsight being 20/20 I probably could have purchased just as good of a machine for 2/3's the price if I would have known at the time what to look for.

From what I have learned so far, if the sheet metal is straight, engine runs with no smoke or major oil leaks, idler is functional (or can be made to function), major controls work, and machine welds, price meets what your willing to pay. BUY IT!

Keep in mind though that if certain parts aren't working its still not the end of the world. John has said it a 1000 times and will probably say it more. Most everything for these machines can be purchased new from Lincoln if not Lincoln there is a cottage industry out there dedicated to keeping these machines running.

Also not to get hung up on good looks or name drop John again. (that don't sound right, sorry John) He told me he has a buddy that is currently making a living with a 50's model short hood that looks as if it has been drug from OKC to Bakersfield CA several times so looks can be deceiving.

Sorry for the ramble

Jeff

Markopolo
06-24-2005, 11:38 AM
Don't apologize for the ramble........I appreciate it !

Maybe Don's right.........maybe I should forget about an SA200 and get a more "practical" (Arrrghhhhh....I HATE that word) machine.

DDA52
06-24-2005, 11:41 AM
Don't apologize for the ramble........I appreciate it !

Maybe Don's right.........maybe I should forget about an SA200 and get a more "practical" (Arrrghhhhh....I HATE that word) machine.


I'm not saying anything... :D

Jeff
06-24-2005, 12:06 PM
Marko,
Don't second guess yourself. If you want a SA-200 GET ONE. Other wise you will always wonder if you should have.
They are a nice smooth low RPM machine. You won't be dissapointed.

Or.. I still have that 400 for sale :D
Jeff

Markopolo
06-24-2005, 12:13 PM
Marko,
.........I still have that 400 for sale :D
Jeff

GOOD NIGHT NURSE !......What the hell would I do with THAT thing ?

I'm just a little fish in the pond.....I don't build bridges or skyscrapers or pipelines or railroads for a living ! :eek:

Franz
06-24-2005, 12:25 PM
GOOD NIGHT NURSE !......What the hell would I do with THAT thing ?

I'm just a little fish in the pond.....I don't build bridges or skyscrapers or pipelines or railroads for a living ! :eek:

You could fab those Marko Eternity Chambers from T1 plate right behind the funeral home.

Markopolo
06-24-2005, 01:00 PM
You could fab those Marko Eternity Chambers from T1 plate right behind the funeral home.

Uncle Franz....if they were going to be TRUE eternity chambers, I'd have to use stainless...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :eek:

Hobweld
06-24-2005, 01:29 PM
Uncle Franz....if they were going to be TRUE eternity chambers, I'd have to use stainless...$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ :eek:

But of course polished to everlasting sheen so bright everyone will need shades.
And charge accordingly. :D

jpill
06-24-2005, 01:32 PM
maybe I should forget about an SA200 and get a more "practical" (Arrrghhhhh....I HATE that word) machine.

Well, let's examine "practical" for a moment. In my design/engineering line of work "practical" is "relative".

If we compare used SA-200 to one of the new "others" (Don you didn't say it)
the prices are roughly the same or comparable. $2500.00 or less SA-200 / around $3200.00 give or take little for Ranger or Bobcat. Thats a wash.

Portability/storage. If both are mounted on a trailer with ladder rack, tool boxes, and torch rig. Both can readily be pulled by a 1/2 ton truck and for all practical purposes both trailers would store in comparable spaces. Thats a wash.

Maintenance cost. Shouldn't matter, oil and filters, antifreeze, and sparkplugs are cheap TAKE CARE OF YOUR EQUIPMENT. So thats a wash.

Engine rebuilds. Correct me if I am wrong Franz. Continentals around $800.00 to $1000.00. Onans, Kohlers, and Hondas unless its something fairly minor its almost cheaper to buy a new engine $1000.00 to $1500.00 Basically a wash.

Generator/ altenator. Generator rebuild around $1000.00. Altenator not sure but I bet its not cheap. Probably a wash.

Electronics. SA-200 has this one beat hands down with the least amount of electronics to go wrong.

Auxillary power Ranger and Bobcat have the SA beat hands down on this one.

Welding. All of the listed machines weld well in there respective places and settings (excluding aluminum welding). So thats a matter of personal choice.

Parts availability. For the moment good on all machines. You just have to know where to go. That a wash.

Gas consumption. Who cares at the moment, we are all hurting.

So the way I look at it, for the guy with an afternoon and weekend welding gig he's just about as well off going either way at the moment.

My childlike view of things,

Jeff

Jeff
06-24-2005, 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by Markopolo
GOOD NIGHT NURSE !......What the hell would I do with THAT thing ?
I dunno, weld? :D

Just get a SA-200. it's what you have been wanting. They are a simple machine with a simple engine. If it runs and doesn't smoke or have a lot of blowby,and it welds and the sliprings and brushes are good, you should be set.
There is a reason Lincoln has made a million of them.

Shade Tree Welder
06-24-2005, 03:54 PM
..If we compare used SA-200 to one of the new "others" (Don you didn't say it)
the prices are roughly the same or comparable. $2500.00 or less SA-200 / around $3200.00 give or take little for Ranger or Bobcat. Thats a wash.

Jeff, excellent post I'll just add this for actual selling prices, if you get a good distributor working for you.

Bobcat 250 (907211) ....... $2750
Trailblazer 302 (907216) ... $3275

These are the base models no extras....

DDA52
06-24-2005, 05:31 PM
Very good comparison, Jeff. I would add the weight factor if you ever put it on a truck. Small machines will be okish on a 1/2 ton, the big guy needs a 1 ton. 3/4 HD will do as well. Bigger machine = bigger truck...or trailer for that matter.

I agree with it being a wash either way. The only way I can see it being cheaper is by finding a fixer upper..which is usually more expensive in the long run...and or finding a used small machine.

Marko, get what you want...the numbers are on your side either way. :cool:

Markopolo
06-24-2005, 05:42 PM
Thanks Don !.......

And Ron, you forgot a few:

When questioned by a member on the parliament, concerning his drinking....She said: "SIR.....YOU'RE DRUNK".....He said: "That may be true, BUT YOU'RE UGLY, AND I SHALL BE SOBER IN THE MORNING" !

.....also, he said: "I've taken more out of alcohol than it's taken out of me" !

(Winston Churchill) :)

jpill
06-24-2005, 05:49 PM
I didn't figure putting it on a truck for the "practicality"/"relativity" comparison Don. Most guys don't own a 3/4 ton or 1 ton unless they are already hauling something heavy, but most everyone has a 1/2 ton truck or vehicle capable of pulling any of those machines on a trailer.

If the machines were to be mounted on a vehicle thats the key where "practical" comes into play.

Jeff

DDA52
06-24-2005, 06:01 PM
I was just saying it...not looking at any practicality aspect. I personally don't like my machines on a trailer. I have to pull a trailer all the time and am very happy not to have to do it when possible. I also had a welder die as a result of a trailer. It was bouncing all the time and it ended up killing it. It was repaired and worked, but just wasn't the same after...sold it for $50 more than I paid for it though. :) It was a Blue Star 2E. I think it was just too light for the trailer. It didn't bounce when it had a good load on it. The welder always bounced. ( A SA is a very good load. No bouncy, bouncy there.)

jpill
06-24-2005, 06:19 PM
I understand fully on the not wanting to pull a trailer.

I was just trying to make a somewhat apples to apples comparison for Marko.

Course he'll probably torch out the top of his hearse and mount the SA in it.

How much are those things rated for anyway Marko?

Jeff

Markopolo
06-24-2005, 07:07 PM
I'm not sure a hearse would be up to the task.

You know, they're built on limousine chassis......not truck chassis.

If I put a heavy customer in the back.....say 300 lbs. body weight.....and another 150 - 200 lbs. for the coffin.......(we're still under 1000 lbs).......And that will cause the coach to hog down noticeably.

Sberry
06-24-2005, 07:20 PM
Thats a bit what I was talking with Marko about being practical. Where he lives there isnt a lot of heavy industry but there would be a fair mout of small work, the type of thing a guy could do in an evening or weekend, handrail, burgler bars, maintance, even a few welds for sign installers, stuff you wouldnt need to be insured to the gills for, gates, just general stuff. None of it is big time critical and a couple 10# boxes of rod will last a year. I would be looking to outfit something light like York did, quiet as you could get it, something a guy could sell if he wanted to change or found a niche, somethig with AC power you could use in a pinch, make it easy to tow or better yet find an older 3/4 ton truck, keep some basic tools, sawzall, grinder, torch, few wrenches, a couple hammers, a hammer drill and see what happens. I like an older truck better than a trailer, maybe a rack on it to haul some steel, something you wouldnt worry about dings and bumps and people are not as tempted to hit it in traffic.

jpill
06-24-2005, 07:41 PM
Thats a bit what I was talking with Marko about being practical.

Theres that dirty word again "practical" ;) .

But, I do see the point of trying to keep quiet around the retirees. Thats where the big azzed muffler would probably have to come in.

As far as the matter of auxillary power thats where I hurt at I've got a 7" ac/dc grinder and two 4 1/2" ac/dc grinders in the tool box, but I am always wishing for my chopsaw or a place to plug it in (its ac only and stays in the shop). But a small ac generator nestled in its own private toolbox could solve that.

Jeff

Markopolo
06-24-2005, 08:03 PM
.......small work, the type of thing a guy could do in an evening or weekend, handrail, burgler bars, maintance, even a few welds for sign installers........

Cary.....You hit the nail right on the head !......I'd LOVE to do stuff like that !

jpill
06-24-2005, 08:06 PM
I agree with it being a wash either way. The only way I can see it being cheaper is by finding a fixer upper..which is usually more expensive in the long run...and or finding a used small machine.


Before I bought my machine I looked at the fixer upper route and decided quick I would rather be working the welder than having the welder work me. That route is ok if you already have a running and working machine to do work with to fund the fixer upper, and you have the knowledge to do the wrenching yourself.

All of the used small machines I looked at had either had the dog run out of them with high hours (close to rebuild or new engine time) or the guy wanted almost as much as new would cost and wouldn't budge on price.

Plus I just like the SA-200 (and I'm a sucker for a open exhaust on a flathead four).

Jeff

arcdawg
06-24-2005, 08:38 PM
marko, you live close enough to ocala and crystal river..........humm horse farms and boats........

so lets see trailer repair/gates/farm eq/ ect...........

if you put $10,000 together you could get a good relieable 4wd pick up/ and trailblazer/ranger8 tools......insurance ect ect.. @ $25 an hour 4 hour min you could really clean up !

I do however understand where you are coming from there is something about what you want........but is it really practial ?

hell I have a 55 belair 4door sitting in my barn bought it close to 10 years ago and never have had it on the road........while I would love to be cruising in it..........well its just not practial

(reality sucks sometime)

dawg

Franz
06-24-2005, 10:21 PM
Well, since I own both a SA and a LP powered Onan Bobcat, and we all know which machine is for sale, maybe I'm not the best guy to offer an opinion here. If we were to go back 3 years in time, the Bobcat would be a Trailblazer, primarily because of the 3 phase alternator rather than the single phase alternator, but I must confess that may be more a decision based on theory than machine performence. I've owned 2 SAs since 1966, the first went to shidt cause it was parked in a damp building, and the engine wasn't corked up. When we popped the head, the cylinders were full of rust that looked like cornflakes, and the pistons were frozen to the cylinder walls, so it became a parts machine.
The one I currently have gets it's intake, exhaust and oil bypass tube corked when it gets shut down for any period of time.
I don't pound rods 8 hours a day any more, so I really don't need the machine the SA is, although there is no subsititute for rotating mass in a generator. On the other hand, I don't miss listening to the SA all day either. Another thing I don't miss is dragging out 400 feet of cable from the SA sitting outside of a building. I can put the Bobcat inside a building, run it up on an elevator, even a passenger elevator, and run it 20 feet from where I'm working. Yup, the Bobcat is just as loud as the SA, but it's real easy to go 20 feet and shut it down when I'm not welding, and in the work I do, actual welding probably doesn't happen more than 10% of the time overall.
One thing I definitely dislike about the Bobcat, the cheap Chink tires Miller put on the machine. Those things should be crammed up some engineer's a55 without tire lube or vaselene. One of these days, I'll replace them with boat trailer tires.
It's a lot easier to get a crane operator to swing the bobcat up onto a roof or deck than it is to get him to put the SA up there too, and I have yet to get biched at for putting that "Big heavy machine" anyplace like I have been for putting the Lincoln in the work area.

From memory, a gasket kit for the Continental is almost 200 bucks, and even though it includes damn near enough extra gaskets to rebuild another motor, none of them fit the 163 engine, so that isn't a happy factor.
Oil changes, probably about equal, BUT the Bobcat WILL get an oil change every 50 hours, come hell or high water. Oil is one hell of a lot cheaper than engine parts.
The bobcat also makes a nice heat source, and that can be a factor here, especially in winter.
Another thing that concerns me from time to time, the Bobcat is far more stealable than the SA, but it's also very easy to lock down, or put on a truck and bring it home.
As far as using the machine for AC power, I don't do that enough for it to be a consideration, I have generators to serve that purpose. From time to time, I have used it, but I hate listening to a machine running 3600 rpm to make electricity, it just puts too much wear on the machine for what you're getting.

Now, I also own 3 operational SA-250 verticles, one of which is more or less permanently located in my buddy's automotive shop, and has saved me having to drive 40 miles to make a weld more than once. I don't need to run a engine drive at home to have a DC welder any more, although I did exactly that back until 66.
Bottom line, a machine pretty much needs to justify itself. Were I pounding rod like JT is, I'd probably run a Diesel SA. For my current needs, the Bobcat does just fine.
I think one of the best indicators of the durability of the small 2 cylinder machines is an erection outfit that works in this area. They run a fleet of 1 ton trucks with a pair of Trailblazers racked on top of the sideboxes. They have 100 feet of lead on the machine, and use a crane to lift the machine into place from the truck if they can't get close enough with the truck. They have machines in service for 5 years, and then trade them in. They don't seem to have many problems with trailblazers running 10,000 hours in 5 years, but they do maintain them with a preventive maintainence program.

Dallas B
06-24-2005, 11:40 PM
I have one just like that one....Starts up every time no matter how long its been setting there...........Did change out the old gen and put alt in its place...hade to buy a specal pully to fit the belt at Napa. $20.00

Sberry
06-25-2005, 06:01 PM
I am with Franz on this one, I would be looking hard at a TB if I was in the market for a new machine. I ran across a guy in a gas station with one the other day, asked how he likes it, he says super. You could run almost any process from it also. A guy like Marko would never wear it out and as was mentioned new is nice. I dont much care for buying used machines either unless they are near giving them away. I paid 100$ for a 300 sychrowave, ok, thats worth it, but to give 2000,, or 2500 for it,, nope, gonna buy a new one.

Markopolo
06-25-2005, 09:19 PM
* Subliminal messege *

"Cary......sell Marko the SA200........sell Marko the SA200.......Sell Marko the SA200............"

Shade Tree Welder
06-25-2005, 10:03 PM
* Subliminal messege *

"Cary......sell Marko the SA200........sell Marko the SA200.......Sell Marko the SA200............"

NON SUBLIMINAL MESSAGE!!!

BUY A WELDER WITH SOME SERIOUS AUXILARY POWER. WHY? YOU ASK! I HAVE TWO WORDS FOR YOU..... HURRICANE SEASON. A SA-200 AIN'T GONNA HELP YOU THERE PAL AND YOU AIN'T GONNA BE RUNNING A PIPELINE TO THE FUNERAL HOME SOON!

Franz
06-25-2005, 10:08 PM
I'm starting to think Marko is sipping the embalming fluid again. I have an SA 200 for sale, at damn near a giveaway price. S has an SA 200 that he doesn't want to sell, but Marko wants the one S has. Wazzup with that?
Maybe Doc needs to go give Marko some reflex tests with a 2# crosspien hammer.

Markopolo
06-25-2005, 10:22 PM
GOOD NIGHT RON.......I had to put my sun-glasses on for that one !.......You're yelling at me ! :(

I know, I know....... Practical .....(there's that fuc&in' word again !).....

AND UNCLE FRANZ !......Give me a break !.......I SAW the strawberry sa200.......(In person). It's a beauty queen.

JTMcC.
06-25-2005, 10:23 PM
Well Mr Markopolo, now that everyone has made the decision on what welding machine you really want, maybe tomorrow they'll pick out your clothes for you ;)


JTMcC.

jpill
06-26-2005, 07:15 AM
All this talk of "practical" shidt again.

I have a tractor that sees about 60 hrs of runtime a year a tiller could most of the same jobs it does, I bought it because I wanted it. Was that "practical" who should care but me it's my money.

I have a rolling tool box crammed full of expensive American hand tools. I am not a professional mechanic, I really could have gotten by with some chinese Wal mart tools. Was that "practical" who should care but me it's my money.

I have a Husqvarna chainsaw when a knockoff Poulan built Sears brand could have done everything I needed it to. Was that "practical" who should care but me it's my money.

I have a Kennedy tool box at work filled with Starrett measuring tools I cringe everytime I think of all that money sitting in one place. I probably could have gotten by with Mitutoyo tools at 1/3 rd the price. Was that "practical" who should care but me it's my money.

The wife and I bought a house 25 miles one way from where we work because we like the country surroundings. We are being eaten alive in monthly fuel bills. Is that "practical" who should care but us it's our money.

I bought a used SA-200 for $2000.00 when I could have bought a $2800.00 Ranger 250 that would have worked just as good for me. I bought the SA-200 because I wanted it. Is that "practical" who should care but me it's my money.

Marko, nothing anyone says on here matters 1 iota. Buy what you want, that will make you happy. It's only YOUR money and I really don't care.

Jeff

Jeff
06-26-2005, 08:01 AM
Well said, Jeff